Marshmallow (pic heavy)

Marshmallow 2 days after a shed. sorry for poor pics (poor camera)

We now know she's not what we thought she was (sonoran) as she's about a year old and 3'3"!

Possibly Honduran x sonoran

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lovely all the same.

If uncertain of lineage and locality we generally term a dwarf BCI "Central American", where we're certain of locality [which isn't always easy] we can refer to that....so uncertain....♂ / ♀ Central American Dwarf Boa...certain....♂ / ♀ Honduran / El Salvador / Sonoran / Nicaraguan etc Dwarf Boa.

Truth is, very many of these dwarf boas look very similar in their natural state [apart from the very distinctive Sonoran and some island variants]....so you're really at the mercy of the vendor!!

I mean and as an example, what would you call a dwarf BCI captured on the border of El Salvador and Honduras? Or Honduras and Nicaragua? Or Nicaragua and Costa Rica....Boas don't recognise borders and if there wasn't a sign you wouldn't either!! They [borders] are invisible, so a Costa Rican Dwarf today might be a Nicaraguan Dwarf tomorrow...get my drift?...in other words they really [by and large] haven't evolved separately as they inhabit the same and very similar land mass and thus will all look pretty similar.

On the other hand, some of the Island Dwarf species...Hogg Island and Crawl Cay [off shore Honduras and Belize respectively] have altered somewhat in size and colouration, specifically because they have evolved in isolation from mainland animals...these boys although different from mainland counterparts are, however, banded into the same BC Imperator group.....maybe no one's brave enough to highlight this and group them as new BC sub species...

The Sonoran is also removed from mainland Central America Dwarfs, not by water though, this time by environment and climatic conditions, so again you could debate that a separate sub species is worthy consideration...

Personally, I don't get too exited about the various localities...even an expert couldn't tell apart a Southern Honduran Dwarf from a Northern Nicaraguan Dwarf...and that's a fact...although I must say some folk defend localities with a passion!!

I'm sure you have your own views on the subject...I'd be interested to hear them [4 smileys for reptile-NI]

Excellent post Tony and lovely snaps SJ

thanks guys,
to be honest we dont really care what she is (shes my baby lol) we were just curious as to possible breeding outcomes for the future. Warren was saying she cant be a sonoran because of how big she is at this age.

it would be nice to have another sub species of BC and i think they should qualify, not just as a dwarf species but in their own right as they're such beautiful snakes.

lovely looking little boa.

There have always been crosses/intergrades between localities and species in the hobby.You can be pretty sure that every so called columbian boa,which i prefer to call common boas,has at one time or another had dwarf bci or even bcc blood added to its gene pool.
With the growning popularity of dwarf locality species we are also going to see a lot more large and dwarf boas species being crossed,as well as different localities.

Unless you have purchased your animal from a respectable breeder who can prove the origins of the animal in question then you CAN NOT lable that animal as a certain locality nore even as a central american.
Trying to identify animals bought from unreliable sources is also futile,as even the most locality specific looking hog ilsand may have had at on time or another some other blood added to its gene pool.

PS:I have kept pure locality animals aswell as knowen crosses and common boas.I do prefer locality specific animals,but i have yet to see an "ugly boa",or a boa that i geniune dont like.

Phil wrote: Unless you have purchased your animal from a respectable breeder

Another oxymoron!!


But seriously Phil, why do folk get so sensitive about the whole locality thing...call me a cynic, but I bet in addition to any real issue it's also a vendors particular means of adding an extra £ or two to the going price....

You're dead on though, if you don't have specific paperwork/history/proof of origin you'd never know the difference....it was kind of my point!!

By the way I don't think I said it in my last, but I totally agree, a stunner of a boa there guys...

thanks Tony, you'll get to see her tomorrow, the photos dont do her justice lol, shes in one of the living room tanks cause she was our first rep ( not mine id had snakes an a ig years ago)

[quote="Tony W"]

Phil wrote: Unless you have purchased your animal from a respectable breeder

Another oxymoron!!


But seriously Phil, why do folk get so sensitive about the whole locality thing...call me a cynic, but I bet in addition to any real issue it's also a vendors particular means of adding an extra £ or two to the going price....

First of all i had to look up"oxymoron" to see what the hell is ment lol,i think i understand now! lol

I try not to get too sensitive,or at least i hope i dont come across as to sensitive about localites,but some localies vary a huge amount from other localities,as you stated in your first post.some localities ie sonorans vary from other BCI so much that they might actually warrent being classified as a subspecies.

I just feel that if i buy or sell a snake as sonoran,then i must know 100% that this snake is pure sonoran.Just as when i sell an albino corn het anery,i would not like to think i was selling a corn that maybe albino but not actually het anery.

As for Vendors adding ££,some people will pay huge amounts of money for different morphs,they pay this money for the looks and rarity of these morphs.These morphs are actually just varients of normal animals.I dont think localities are any different.

Again,"Unless you have purchased your animal from a respectable breeder who can prove the origins of the animal in question then you CAN NOT lable that animal as a certain locality nore even as a central american".

If i where to purchase an albino boa and i thought it looked a little like a motely,surely it wouldnt be right for me to call it an albino motley!

At the end of the day its all down to personal preference,some people like normals,some localies and some morphs.I like them all!

I have just finished nightshift and have had 2 hours sleep so hope this all makes sense.

PS:sorry inkriminate for hijacking your thread

PS:PS:When i was admin i never realised yous guys never had an edit botton!! can we do anything about this please admin,its really enoying lol

Phil, good reply...agreed...as for the edit function, I remember badgering you about the very same a little while ago!!! I may have to get Steve to fix this one!!

More personal views and comments re. this thread welcomed, I know there are plenty of folk out there with valid opinion....

we aint bothered as to what she is really, we love her all the same, we where just curious cause we hadnt seen another one like her.

That is a stunning boa! With the orange belly and flanks its hard to imagine that there is no Honduran / Sonoran influence in there. Its definitely not a Colombian Common boa thats for sure! The growth rate certainly does suggest there is some Colombian Common blood in there though.

I personally think its all a matter of taste and preference, as Phil said. I too own pure locality animals and also intergrades / snakes of unknown provenance. I'm in part a purist for locality animals I'll admit - but I'm not going to get into that here :)

Right Karl!! There could be a few pages written right??

Thank god for Aussie Pythons

i have a very high orange female
would be a pairing for that male in <2 yrs time

marsh is a female lol

oh...lol
emmm i have a male dwarf loads of pink on his sides ready to breed!!

give her a few years shes only an '09 lol

well hes here.. soon to sire a litter for me hopefully

would be intressted in one of the little ones, by then should have everything sorted out ( fingers crossed)

well untill my food supplier sends my lrge order (£70) im sett im starting to feed other snake chicks (10p) so i can get loads of BIG rats for my female
shes at 7.5 pounds im trying to get her to 8-9 or 10 if poss but looking at 9lbs
but i need some glass for my 2 tier breeding cage