Keeping Hots

I find it very strange that anyone would keep hots purely for the sake of having a hot. For me , anything I keep is purely because I happen to love that snake and have a passion or desire to keep it.

Why have an animal that could potentially kill you if :

a - you arent particularly fussed, it just sounds cool
or
b - you aren't going to take the time to care for it properly and in the manner all venomous should be treated.

I'd say the majority of incidents you hear about are not nessecarily the people who have kept hots all their life and "it was bound to happen", but those who decided to purchase a timber rattler because it was a timber rattler.

I disagree with the idea of progression and qualification for keeping hots too. Just because "Ive kept several large boids for x amount of years" means I can "progress" to a copperhead, from that to a rattler and from that to a gaboon....

My wishlist isnt ranked in terms of the most dangerous, its ranked in terms of how beautiful that snake is, how interesting that snake is or how Ive always dreamed of owning that snake.

At the moment this is what I really really want! Its not madly extravagent , not is it ranked high in terms of venom but I am just so in love with it and find it absolutely stunning and fascinating

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These are two of my own which I bought because I adore.

White lipped tree viper - Trimeresurus albolabris

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Baby Northern Copperhead - Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen

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I'm rambling a little I know, but keep what interests you and not what sounds cool! I love our macklott pythons, im pretty sure a lot of people would find them boring, dull, ugly even but our female macklott was one of our first and it doesnt matter how pretty a blackhead or how expensive a retic is, I wouldnt swap her for the world :)

To conclude ......... Ive had far too much caffeine

I agree people buy snakes just for the "look at me factor" but on the other hand I don't agree with people keeping hot's in residential property ! but that's just my opinion.
Those are some beautiful snakes btw.

Beautiful snakes as always Lauren!

For ages I held the view that before I could own a hot, I would own one or more feisty non-venomous snakes first and if during careful handling they should tag me, then that would amount to being tagged by an aggessive hot and so I should maybe leave hot-keeping for another while.

As the years have rolled on, and after keeping many feisty non-venomous snakes, I realise that if you like an animal, can realistically keep it and can develop the necessary mentality and skills needed to maintain it properly, then just go for it.

For the last 3-4 years I've drooled over Eyelash vipers and other tree vipers (that White-lip is soooo cool!), but with a niece and 2 nephews that like to visit the animal room every so often it just isn't fair on those around me that they should be potentially exposed to a dangerous animal. Who knows what the near future holds though :)

I'm fortunate enough in that there are never children at my house.if there were I wouldn't own hots,or the retics for that matter. I think learning from a good mentor is the only way to go.to see the pratices,safety precautions,care and tools nessecary in front of you is important.you also pick up so many good habits

i've kept all manor of snakes for 20+ years.big burms' retics'boas'as well as my hots which i have over 20.people always ask me advice on how to handle/work wiyh them and ask lots of siily questions like as follows.e.g. iv'e got a 12 ft burm and can handle her the best so i think im ready for my 1st hot. but i can't make my mind up between a cobra and a gaboon viper? to me this is mad! and if i offend any 1 im sorry.but the most of these people only see the beauty of the snake not wot it cud do to you if you got tagged!my point being.dont run till u can walk.

p.s. sorry for any spelling errors i've had a few bevies!lol

From a personal perspectice I cannot see myself ever going down the "hot" road at any stage in the future. Risk far outways the beauty in my opinion. Should you ever get tagged in a country like Ireland you could well be in big trouble ad perhaps pay dearly. That is a fact guys however, each to their own and I fully respect that.

Herpalist wrote:From a personal perspectice I cannot see myself ever going down the "hot" road at any stage in the future. Risk far outways the beauty in my opinion. Should you ever get tagged in a country like Ireland you could well be in big trouble ad perhaps pay dearly. That is a fact guys however, each to their own and I fully respect that.

Ditto for both myself & Chris...

poison wrote:.e.g. iv'e got a 12 ft burm and can handle her the best so i think im ready for my 1st hot. but i can't make my mind up between a cobra and a gaboon viper?

Its madness isnt it?? Like theres a qualification

St3ve76 wrote:I don't agree with people keeping hot's in residential property ! but that's just my opinion.

Same I don't agree with hot's being kept in residential propertys theres to many risks that come if it does somehow manage to escape the premises (I know this would be very........ rare but theres always that chance) theres alot of people that could be harmed and probably don't relise how bad the bite is going to be if it does manage to tag someone. Personally I know nothing about Hots so if I was to be bit by one I wouldn't even know what to do and I have experience handling reps so imagine how freaked out a member of the public would be. To be honest if I even found out my neighbour had a hot next door I'd try and get him to get rid of it I have to many children and vunerable people around my premises. I know personally myself though I will never even think about owning a hot as said before the risk outways the beauty of the animal they are venomous for a reason to feed and protect themselfs and in their eyes we are a predator.

[quote="Jaxsin"]Same I don't agree with hot's being kept in residential propertys theres to many risks that come if it does somehow manage to escape the premises (I know this would be very........ rare but theres always that chance) theres alot of people that could be harmed and probably don't relise how bad the bite is going to be if it does manage to tag someone.quote]

Ireland is completely ill equipped to deal with any such incident but the fact remains that people do keep hots and even with an all out ban probably will always keep hots. I agree with a form of licensing if drafted and enforced correctly, by informed personnel but will it do the job? Does the DWA?

Hots are being kept, will be kept and surely the best measure is to promote responsible keeping to ensure such an incident never happens? Things such as correct tools and equipment, double locked vivs in secure rooms ( vents covered, windows locked, doors locked ), snake hook always outside the door, labels on each individual snake with common and latin name, warning on exterior door that dangerous reptiles reside within and do not enter......

I have always been attracted to hots. Well, some hots. The only one I have ever owned, however, was a venomoid neotropical rattlesnake. What an absolutely stunning beast. The animal had its venom glands and ducts removed by a vet in Poland. I purchased it from a friend, Ty Milsom, who owned and may still own Cheltenham Reptiles. Anyway, I know some people have issues with venomoids, etc, but mine had no problems, fed on defrost, and thrived. I ended up being offered a sum of money I could not refuse for it.

The venomous I would love to keep are Wagler's Tree Vipers, Copper heads, and pigmy rattlers. I see copperheads regularly in the late Spring and Summer around my house and around the local lake, and could therefore collect myself 9with the relevant permit). Sadly the wife says no, and she is the boss around here. I can't risk a night or three in the hospital. So, for now, at least, I will have to stick to seeing them in the wild.

Great looking snakes there Lauren.

Warren

Thanks Warren. What I wouldn't give to live where you live! I could easily not keep venomous if I had the opportunity to study them in their natural habitat, I'd just never be at home lol

Wagler's are lovely animals. So vibrant. You're a resourceful man Warren, do you know of anyone breeding Sri Lanka Palm Vipers?

Palm vipers. I recall a Florida breeder with those recently. Let me contact a fellow USARK board of directors member, Shawn Hefleck. I am sure he could locate that. Also, I can call Tom Crutchfield as he might have some right now. Are you interested in shipping from the U.S. It snot hard to ship into Dublin. Thats were I brough all of my shipments into (Florida to Atlanta, then Atlanta to Dublin with Delta Airways).

Warren

Just called a friend quickly. He has some for $250 a piece right now. I think Glade Herps aslo got some in recently.

Warren

[quote="LaurenC"]

Jaxsin wrote:Same I don't agree with hot's being kept in residential propertys theres to many risks that come if it does somehow manage to escape the premises (I know this would be very........ rare but theres always that chance) theres alot of people that could be harmed and probably don't relise how bad the bite is going to be if it does manage to tag someone.quote]

Ireland is completely ill equipped to deal with any such incident but the fact remains that people do keep hots and even with an all out ban probably will always keep hots. I agree with a form of licensing if drafted and enforced correctly, by informed personnel but will it do the job? Does the DWA?

Hots are being kept, will be kept and surely the best measure is to promote responsible keeping to ensure such an incident never happens? Things such as correct tools and equipment, double locked vivs in secure rooms ( vents covered, windows locked, doors locked ), snake hook always outside the door, labels on each individual snake with common and latin name, warning on exterior door that dangerous reptiles reside within and do not enter......

[quote="Jaxsin"]

LaurenC wrote:

Jaxsin wrote:Same I don't agree with hot's being kept in residential propertys theres to many risks that come if it does somehow manage to escape the premises (I know this would be very........ rare but theres always that chance) theres alot of people that could be harmed and probably don't relise how bad the bite is going to be if it does manage to tag someone.quote]

Ireland is completely ill equipped to deal with any such incident but the fact remains that people do keep hots and even with an all out ban probably will always keep hots. I agree with a form of licensing if drafted and enforced correctly, by informed personnel but will it do the job? Does the DWA?

Hots are being kept, will be kept and surely the best measure is to promote responsible keeping to ensure such an incident never happens? Things such as correct tools and equipment, double locked vivs in secure rooms ( vents covered, windows locked, doors locked ), snake hook always outside the door, labels on each individual snake with common and latin name, warning on exterior door that dangerous reptiles reside within and do not enter......

oops this didn't show in my last post for some reason so gotta type it again lol :x

I wasn't looking for a debate when whether its ok or not to keep venomous in residental area was just saying my personal opinion you can go over protocol after protocol but none of this will change my personal opinion.

As I said before as a part of a family with young and vunerable people about my house I would be worried if say someone 2 doors down from me had a hot just because he is a responsible keeper doesn't mean that first I know that he is a responsible keeper and second even responsible keepers make mistakes tho the number of escapee hots are very very limited to a few I still wouldn't want to chance the fact of one in my area escaping.

I never even meantioned once about all out ban not once did I meantion about a licensing system I just disagree which them being in build up residental estates plus no harm but the DWA is useless it does nothing to stop unresponsible keepers but make it harder to find a hot that hasn't been recorded.

If say someone was on their own land away from big residential areas honestly I really wouldn't care its got nothing to do with me if they get tagged but if its putting other people at risk thats a different story and as you say Ireland is ill equipped for venomous bites so what happens if a member of the public does get bit? what do you say to their families if the unfortunate does happen? Alot of hot keepers tell no one in their area they have a hot so what if someone does get bit by an escapee snake and thinks "its just a snake" and continues their day till they know somethings wrong? usually by then its to late anyway.

Nor am I looking to start a debate or change your personal opinion. I was pointing out that people will keep them anyway regardless of your opinion so why not promote responsible keeping to lessen the likelihood of an incident occurring? In some cases the people keeping them may not have the knowledge of how to best house or deal with hots. There are people out there who, like it or not, will keep a boa or two and pick up a rattler next week. If we cant stop them why not try to educate them? Give them somewhere to turn to for advice on feeding, equipment, best practice….

I know you didn’t mention an all out ban but if you look at the context in which it was written, I did not suggest you mentioned it. I was using it to illustrate the point that even if an all out ban was in place, people will still keep them.

What happens if a member of the public gets savaged by an akita that was not muzzled and was on a lead held by a 14yr old boy? You can spectulate all you like. Its all hypothetical. The point I am making is that its unavoidable that people will keep hots, so lets make sure its been done correctly and that they have a protocol and orocedure in place

If a member of the public was bitten , I ‘d hazard a guess that they are far more likely to assume the worst rather than say “oh its just a snake” wandering aimlessly in my garden….in dublin / derry/ Belfast …..I'm guessing they would be straight to their nearest hospital. Of course if the keeper knew how best to respond to the situation, he could have alerted the appropiate authorithies and have the surrounding area searched so as to avoid such an encounter

Warren_Booth wrote:Just called a friend quickly. He has some for $250 a piece right now. I think Glade Herps aslo got some in recently.

Warren

Thanks Warren, will take this up via PM

they are gorgeous snakes

and you are completely right lauren
some people just want them so that they can say yeah i own this very dangerous snake
its a shame that people buy them and then dont care for them :(

but they get bite its there own fault and i can understand why they would bite aswel

am sure anyone would be pissed off if they werent being cared for properly :)