Homo Hog (the Gay Boy)

Some long over due images of a few of the guys. I have placed the Gay Boy (DE Cinnamon, Jupiter) along side a few of the girlies to show colour and size difference. There is no set size when it comes to these animals. Gay Boy carries some fantastic genes but refuses to let me have some babies. He's not too big body wise but does show Algerian traits in his face shape and ear placement. Over all hes a lovely animal with no health issues that even the best of us see, tatty or bumpy ears, dry skin etc...Here he is (top of the image) with three of the girlies and he's having a grump. Understanding body language as well as all those grunt, clicks and squeaks is very important when to comes to knowing your animal. I believe when you understand how they work, what they are saying and how they are feeling, it leads to a higher level of care which in turn makes for a happier hog. What this image tells us is Gayboy is upset, quill placement along with head positioning are what gives this away, while the three females are all relaxed and feel no threat from the situation they are in (the tub) or from him.

Having his bath and showing the Algerian traits in his face.

Looking as cute as ever and showing his nails which needed trimming. Many hedgehog owners do not know they need to trim nails and there are some tricks to doing a non-cooperative animal but Gay Boy is easy to do and is not a time consuming animal, unlike many which people need to consider when thinking of becoming a hedgehog owner. It is true to say some hogs never need trimming but the majority do. This is Gayboy with a weeks worth of over growth beyond when I would trim. Untrimmed nails can cause long term problems, muscular skeletal changes to name one so trimming nails monthly can prevent this (this is a guide as some animals require it weekly)

I am often asked about hedgehogs sniffers and teeth when I do talks or by perspective owners so I thought it best to get some images to illustrate what I try very hard to describe. All hedgehogs have an overshot top lip but the extent depends on the genus. So a typical view from underneath a hedgehog (again this includes our native wildlife) looks like this

and what does a hedgehog mouth look like inside, well, most look like this

Hedgehogs can give a fairly nasty bite which is why it amazes me the majority, even when injured, never do. They ball up using those fantastic, special muscles located in the stomach and the two which run along the back in order to defend themselves. Some species choose to run first if they can, the long ear being one but unlike our native and our little APH, long ears will turn and fight if cornered (I have been bitten by Long ears, our Native hog as well as APH and the long ear was the worse bite I've ever received from a hedgehog). Hedgehogs teeth are somewhat staggered but from a head on view, if the nose is raised upwards, they have a very similar look to that of a bat.

Lovely hogs Tan, you got some fantastic close up shots,really liking the one you got of the teeth. Loving the name of your guy too, gay boy....... Priceless

His registered name is Jupiter but I usually refer to him as Gayboy or Homo Hog due to his preference for the lads

Hi tan
Great pics and some really useful information (as usual). The body language of Jupiter is very similar to the male we had when he was around females.(his nickname was Huffy Harry and this was before we new of the possibility of gay hedgehogs)
What colours are the girls ( we have our thoughts but want to hear what they actually are to see if we are getting to grips with Hedgie colours yet)
Hopefully this will spark a bit of interest on the forum in Hedgies.
John

Super pics Tan! Hopefully I'll be in here a lot more in the near future as I'm after a Hog meself.

What are the Algerian traits?

I will get back to you on that soon Karl, promise

As they are a hybrid of two members of the same genus we often see traits come through from one, the Algerian Hedgehog who has an elongated snout, larger body and ears are placed back further on the head or the other, a White belly or four toe trait is a smaller snout, ear positioning is different and ear shape can also be different. This is a very basic explanation but the best thing I can do is to show you and I have chosen a good example. Sometimes changes are subtle and many people struggle to see them but this should be obvious.

Take at look at my girl here. Look at her face going back to the ears. Now compare her features to Gayboy. Do you see the difference?

Very interersting post Tan and gorgeous pics! I've always had an interest in keeping some of these guys myself, and was tempted to smuggle some home from haam the past two years.
They really fascinate me.

Unfortunately a powerful desire to keep new animals and a tendency to become fiercely attached to the animals in my care means that I'm completely overstocked!

morelia wrote:Hopefully I'll be in here a lot more in the near future as I'm after a Hog meself.

Hi Karl
PM sent

Hi Tan,

Great set of shots and explanations! Are the majority of captive hogs hybrids or are there pure lines available. Also how well do adult hogs get on? I've never seen more than a pair intogether before. are those three females just together fro shot! Thanks for info! They really are great animals!

TBH Allen, the PC thing to say here is that all captive hogs we refer to as APH are hybrid based on the history we have. I used to think this was true when I was starting out within the hog community, being very naive, in awe of all these hog people and just lapping up everything I was told. For the most part, based on the information we are provided with it is, as we do map the demographic using the registry BUT can I categorically say they are all hybrids out there, nope, nor can anyone else for that matter. In order to fully know their history and lineage we need every single person across this globe who owns a hog to participate in the registry system, to be honest and open about where their animals came from etc..obviously many keepers/breeders don't participate and then of those that have we must take them at their word.

Although their wild cousins are protected, we all know animals are smuggled, why would the Atelerix genus be any different especially as there is a fairly large market for them out there. As we see SO many traits from one or the other members of the genus they are hybridised with, we can never ever tell if this particular hogs parents are both Albivertris etc...I do think if a hog was smuggled, the more likely scenario is the hog is bred to an existing APH so this would still create a Hybrid.

We do have pure bred Sclateri out there, very very few keepers with them and I'm waiting a few years now myself but they can and will be crossed with the APH. The pure breds are not offered as APH but as Somali so yes, we do have captive full bred hogs out there but not readily available and not to the general public either.

Also, as animals do not know boundaries it is very possible APH exist in the wild. I wouldn't imagine many but I wouldn't rule it out. For a long time many people within the community, myself included didn't speak about our thinkings, findings and new found knowledge in relation to these animals due to how the information was greeted by a lot of people. You wouldn't believe the amount of people unwilling to change even the simplest of things in order to make their hogs life that little bit better all because they read in a book once...or someone once said on a forum...you get the idea. It is this attitude and the wealth of incorrect information out there in books, across the net and even from some experienced keepers that I believe causes many unnessisary early deaths or avoidable health problems.

As far as herding goes, I did a huge piece on this on our old site. I was one of the first to start a herding project many many years ago and of course was met by all the you cannot do that, I was cruel, they will kill each other, hedgehogs are not social, it's not natural even look at their wild behaviour. This is not something I did on a whim. I had socialised my animals with each other for years during play time and watched and learned from their interaction with one another. Even based on my own findings with wild hogs (which I won't talk about here as it is slightly different) I thought it was possible. I understood what they do in the wild and also understood things change once they enter captivity. The one thing I have said for a long time now and will continue to use as my example is, Tigers are similar in the sense they are mainly solitary animals, in the wild, coming together only to breed and then females raising young. This is also something hogs do, in the wild. I'd spent my life around hedgehogs, learning all those little grunts and sniffs and handling in ways I discovered many others didn't as they misread an empty threat as being serious etc...but I decided to go ahead and herd based on everything I had observed and knew up until then.

After much consideration I originally set up two colonies, one male and one female. At the start I had no problems what so ever and all seemed to be doing well. They do have pecking orders but for the most part were very social and tolerable of each other. I discovered more routined sleeping patterns not to mention deeper sleep was more common communally (this was what lead to our heat v proper rested sleep theory since proven) more often then not you heard snores coming from a communal nest (and snoring hedgehogs are adorable) with animals sleeping side by side, some obviously sharing body heat and not balled up. One problem we did find was one or two males asserted themselves obviously establishing the dominant. One male was particularly aggressive and simply picked on everyone else at any time of day or night no matter what the situation. This male along with two others could not live communally and one female who shared this aggression towards its species. These are the only hogs I've ever had to have alone. Those girls are part of a community made up of 5, all different ages and linage and we've had no problems for years.

Gay boy was part of a gay couple but lost his partner and is now in solitude as he tries to bond with other males and then mount them and they don't particularly like his advances. I have tried to keep this kind of on topic as I could talk forever about my communities, the social hedgehog not to mention institutionally induced homosexuality. Just like opposite sex matings, they perform sexual acts on one another as well as go through the mating process (in both sexes cases, one taking the role of the female and one the male) and I find it all FASCINATING!!!!!

Gay hedgehogs??? now thats a good one lol !!
There brilliant Tan!
Excellent pics

Hi tan, thanks for such a detailed response. It is truly amazing how much i don't know about these amazing animals! I will have to hit the web to try and learn more :). I heard of a zoo with Pakistani black hedgehogs recently which again was a first for me! As you say it makes complete sense that we can keep captive animals in different social groupings to that of they exist in the wild. Zoos keep many so called solitary species together with signs of increased breeding and obvious enjoyment of their enclosure mates company. Hedgehogs like alot of small insectivores I guess are solitary mainly due to food competition.

Thanks again,

Allan

No worries Allan. Was it a Brants Hedgehog (Hemiechinus/Paraechinus hypomelas, depending on who you speak to) they have in the Zoo (I keep a herd of another member of that genus too :) ). So many different common names for the same species give people the impression there are more then there is if you know what I mean.

I would keep the web browsing to a minimum tbh and ask more keepers/breeders/rescuers. You'll find much of the info is regurgitated and either out of date or just incorrect. I'm sorry to knock the web when it really is such an invaluable tool at times, I'm just totally biased when it comes to these little guys and all that's out there about them drives me nuts sometimes :)

John & Nikki are becoming hedgie whizzes too and maybe John can share some of his experiences with you also.

Here's a URL to the so called pakistani balck hedgehog (Paraechinus micropus)! I dont like the look of the state of its ears! :(

http://www.zoochat.com/334/pakistani-black-hedgehog-paraechinus-micropus-five-38854/

I just google searched the species and there are some better images!

This following link from a russian hedgehog forum has a nice picture of it also aswell as some nice pics of some other species!

http://hedgehog-home.my1.ru/forum/57-439-1#6189

its in russian but google translate is a wonderful internet tool!

Omg, that hog has a severe infection.I'm on my phone so ill look better once on pc but I'm disgusted and hoping I'm seeing incorrectly on the phone.

Yup, he's in a desperately poor state....

Sorry I'm only replying now Allan. This is the first time I've been on via anything bar the phone in ages.

That poor hog has some serious infection and open lesion on the ear. I would hazard a guess it's parasitic which isn't helped at all by the totally inappropriate substrate. I wouldn't mind a look at his skin either as I'm sure those quills are hiding something. Poor animal.

very insightful post tan, do find these guys very very very interesting and had wanted one for aaaaaaaages. somethin else lined up instead though and there WILL be tonnes of pics... Nice to hear some real info

I could talk hog all day but find very few people who want to listen that long

I do look forward to these cryptic animal images mind :)