Avic avic moult
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igmillichip
Buddy
jonty
Tony W
morelia
9 posters
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Avic avic moult
After going off his food for a while my little Avic avic finally shed lastnight :)
Unfortunately the abdomen was too clumpled to get a confirmation of sex, but had to have a closer look anyway
Fang detail
Cephalothorax detail
And the freshly moulted dude himself
....the orange toes are starting to become more pink now :)
Unfortunately the abdomen was too clumpled to get a confirmation of sex, but had to have a closer look anyway
Fang detail
Cephalothorax detail
And the freshly moulted dude himself
....the orange toes are starting to become more pink now :)
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
awesome photo's Karl, i still can't get my head round the fact that they shed thier lungs and sexual organs etc
Re: Avic avic moult
Great pics...if you spray the abdomen of the moult with tepid water you should be able to gently stretch it out after about 20 mins or so
Buddy- I just can't stop
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Number of posts : 936
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Re: Avic avic moult
Cool you got the avic through the molt.
Do as Buddy says with the molt.....and from then how were you going to sex it?
By the spermatheca or by the epigastric furrow method?
I use the epigastric furrow method but you need to not damage the molt.
Pretty high level of confidence even with small specimens.
ian
Do as Buddy says with the molt.....and from then how were you going to sex it?
By the spermatheca or by the epigastric furrow method?
I use the epigastric furrow method but you need to not damage the molt.
Pretty high level of confidence even with small specimens.
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Thanks for the tips Buddy / Ian - I'll try that ASAP as I'm keen to have a go at these exuvium sexing methods LOL. I'm only familiar with the spermathecae sexing Ian - whats the details of the other method?
Tony - no plans as such for this lil dude, I just like arboreal things that can jump - so he's called Dr. Hatsumi after the last great Ninja :)
Tony - no plans as such for this lil dude, I just like arboreal things that can jump - so he's called Dr. Hatsumi after the last great Ninja :)
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
If the Tarantula event for Saturday is not cancelled, then Justine is going to mention that form of sexing.
So......I'll probably not be going into too much detail on that until afterwards.
But basically, you are looking for either a consistent or inconsistent curvature and bristle length and density along the epigastric furrow.
You can do this on living animals. Basically, the male have an inconsistent pattern of curvature and brittle density along the epigastric furrow....the epiandrous gland is the reason for the bristle density and length change.
SO: no cheating, and don't go hunting for pictures....see if that very brief overview helps you.
It's a very good methos and allows you to sex tarantulas from a very young age.
ian
So......I'll probably not be going into too much detail on that until afterwards.
But basically, you are looking for either a consistent or inconsistent curvature and bristle length and density along the epigastric furrow.
You can do this on living animals. Basically, the male have an inconsistent pattern of curvature and brittle density along the epigastric furrow....the epiandrous gland is the reason for the bristle density and length change.
SO: no cheating, and don't go hunting for pictures....see if that very brief overview helps you.
It's a very good methos and allows you to sex tarantulas from a very young age.
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Hi karl
As others have said if you damp the shed you can unfold the abdomen part quite easily, with your photography skills (the pics are fantastic) you should be able to take some of the inside of the moult around the lung area (the white leaf shaped things inside the moult), if you post these some of us should be able to give you a good idea of the sex of your spid.
John
As others have said if you damp the shed you can unfold the abdomen part quite easily, with your photography skills (the pics are fantastic) you should be able to take some of the inside of the moult around the lung area (the white leaf shaped things inside the moult), if you post these some of us should be able to give you a good idea of the sex of your spid.
John
snakeboyadam2k8- I just can't stop
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Number of posts : 785
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Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
Here is a defo Female (from a picture of the live animal)
(I'm stealing one of Justine's photos from her talk...but she'll forgive me)
This may be a Mex Red Knee, but that makes no difference.
In a male, the area where the arrow points would be not as consitent as this female specimen. There would be an area of short bristles that tends to distort the furrow.
This female is 10 or 11 years old, but this would be seen in a very young spiderling.
The spermatheca method would require 5 to 7 molts before it is clearly shown (in which time you could easily mistake a female for a male using the spermatheca method).
I don't have a picture on photobucket with a male epigastric furrow so I can't post that here.
Now, if using the epigastric furrow method on a molt....you need to make sure that the area between the book lungs is not damaged in your molt prep else it will give a distorted view.
On difficult ones, you may need to make a 1 in 20 glycerin solution to help manipulate the molt and prevent ripping it.
In fact, it may well be worth practicing with the 1 in 20 glycerine solution to manipulate molts in case you ever need to help a struggling T out of a difficult dry molt (if you do ever need to do that, then avoid getting anything in the book lungs).
ian
(I'm stealing one of Justine's photos from her talk...but she'll forgive me)
This may be a Mex Red Knee, but that makes no difference.
In a male, the area where the arrow points would be not as consitent as this female specimen. There would be an area of short bristles that tends to distort the furrow.
This female is 10 or 11 years old, but this would be seen in a very young spiderling.
The spermatheca method would require 5 to 7 molts before it is clearly shown (in which time you could easily mistake a female for a male using the spermatheca method).
I don't have a picture on photobucket with a male epigastric furrow so I can't post that here.
Now, if using the epigastric furrow method on a molt....you need to make sure that the area between the book lungs is not damaged in your molt prep else it will give a distorted view.
On difficult ones, you may need to make a 1 in 20 glycerin solution to help manipulate the molt and prevent ripping it.
In fact, it may well be worth practicing with the 1 in 20 glycerine solution to manipulate molts in case you ever need to help a struggling T out of a difficult dry molt (if you do ever need to do that, then avoid getting anything in the book lungs).
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Thats super info Ian - many thanks. I'll try to learn the epicastirc furrow method as it seems superior to the spermathecae method, although I guess the 2 could be used together in older specimens to confirm sex.
I'm off to try and sex my Nhandu and Avic avic now :)
I'm off to try and sex my Nhandu and Avic avic now :)
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
If you're use to microscopy and other observations skills, as I know you are, then you'll find this straightforward.
And, whilst you are at it....and especually as you are looking at Nhandu, then you could also go further into the realms of ID-ing spiders.
Some Nhandu might be Acanthoscurria look-alikes etc etc.
Look at the spermatheca or the male bulbs as a first point of reference. Next would be the 'dent' in their carapace (yeah, it has a proper name, but I couldn't be bothered spelling it correctly :) )
ian
And, whilst you are at it....and especually as you are looking at Nhandu, then you could also go further into the realms of ID-ing spiders.
Some Nhandu might be Acanthoscurria look-alikes etc etc.
Look at the spermatheca or the male bulbs as a first point of reference. Next would be the 'dent' in their carapace (yeah, it has a proper name, but I couldn't be bothered spelling it correctly :) )
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Tried soaking the exuviae of both the Avic and the Nhandu, and the abdomen of both was very torn so I don't think its of any use in sexing. I'll try to get the sheds sooner before they dry up in future.
I did however get a few shots of the book lung area of both species - see below
Avic avic
Nhandu chromatus
What do you guys think? Are the photos good / clear enough?
I did however get a few shots of the book lung area of both species - see below
Avic avic
Nhandu chromatus
What do you guys think? Are the photos good / clear enough?
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
The pictures are clear.....but I'm going to have to put them on a bigger and cleaner screen to see.
Would you like to state what you feel is what sex (based on a quickie description)?
ian
Would you like to state what you feel is what sex (based on a quickie description)?
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Hint....you need to concentrate on the anterior section of the epigastric furrow.
I'm seeing from my laptop you have both sexes, but a live view with a magnifying glass with give a 3D image to be extra confident.
Where the bristles are the same colour can be difficult to see, but these are darker coloured underneaths...and that makes things easier than some light coloured underneaths.
ian
I'm seeing from my laptop you have both sexes, but a live view with a magnifying glass with give a 3D image to be extra confident.
Where the bristles are the same colour can be difficult to see, but these are darker coloured underneaths...and that makes things easier than some light coloured underneaths.
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
Looking at the furrow, I'd say the Avic avic is a female....still not too sure on the Nhandu, there is perhaps a tuft of red hairs anterior to the furrow that mask it slightly so maybe a male?
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
From the pictures as they are.....that would be my take as well.
When this method really starts to show itself when looking at a species for the first time is if you happen to have a male and female of the species.
That is were a little subtle skill comes in with some species.
Another thing to do is to measure the relative distances between the book lungs (anterior especially).
There you go.
When this method really starts to show itself when looking at a species for the first time is if you happen to have a male and female of the species.
That is were a little subtle skill comes in with some species.
Another thing to do is to measure the relative distances between the book lungs (anterior especially).
There you go.
Re: Avic avic moult
Hi ian
Very interesting info on the external epigastic method of sexing T's, I must say that I have always found it easier using the internal epigastric furrow method as I feel it is easier to see what you are looking for. The trick is being able to spread out the moult without tearing it.
John
Very interesting info on the external epigastic method of sexing T's, I must say that I have always found it easier using the internal epigastric furrow method as I feel it is easier to see what you are looking for. The trick is being able to spread out the moult without tearing it.
John
snakeboyadam2k8- I just can't stop
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Number of posts : 785
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Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
I'd also say that we should continue looking for differences in sex in other places as well.
Spermatheca and epigatric furrow methods (using molts and living specimens) are proving to be very reliable and so much better than "females are bugger" or "males have longer legs".
Sometimes the molt is so poor that it often difficult to get anything from it.
We've had a few spiders who simply attack their molt and shred it.
But, yeah, developing skills in restoring molts are also good for if ever you get a spider stuck in a molt.
I think that a compendium of molts here would be a great asset....and the forum has some really good photographers who are also into spiders.
:)
ian
Spermatheca and epigatric furrow methods (using molts and living specimens) are proving to be very reliable and so much better than "females are bugger" or "males have longer legs".
Sometimes the molt is so poor that it often difficult to get anything from it.
We've had a few spiders who simply attack their molt and shred it.
But, yeah, developing skills in restoring molts are also good for if ever you get a spider stuck in a molt.
I think that a compendium of molts here would be a great asset....and the forum has some really good photographers who are also into spiders.
:)
ian
Re: Avic avic moult
wow this thread is fully of great info!!!
Nice T Karl. May be getting one of these soon myself!
Nice T Karl. May be getting one of these soon myself!
JoeR- Insomniac
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Re: Avic avic moult
Go for it Joe, the Avics are amazing if not speedy little T's to work with.
morelia- I swear I'm not addicted
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Number of posts : 1472
Age : 44
Location : Norn Irn
Registration date : 2009-03-02
Re: Avic avic moult
Yeah i defo am !!! I've been watching youtube vids, and there just too beautiful and amazing NOT to get!
JoeR- Insomniac
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Number of posts : 1646
Age : 30
Location : Galway
Registration date : 2010-04-21
Re: Avic avic moult
Top notch info going on here alright, I'll be back and forth for a look at this one many times I'm sure, cool stuff
Beautiful looking Avic too, Karl !
Beautiful looking Avic too, Karl !
matt- Unemployed
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