Killer Boa ?

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Killer Boa ?

Post by WAMA on Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:45 am

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:58 am

omg, irresponsible owner??
or snake intended to kill???
either way im shocked that it was a boa!!!
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:04 am

id import that snake 9ft amazin to have it sitting in a big tank in the living room with 6locks on the tank and a warning sign saying:

"attention, please admire the snake from a safe distance as this is the boa in history to kill a man, if you wish to have your picture taking with it please do so as it will save me money on pigs, enjoy"

by no means am i mockin that mans death
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by sally on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:08 am

why do people put large snakes like boas etc around their necks? im not saying thats why it killed him but if you have a 9ft snake and you allow it to go around your shoulders are you not asking for trouble, especially if the other person who should be with you doesnt know what to do if the situation arose? whats the point in having them there. i wont let anyone have my boas around their neck and they are only 2 and a half foot, the closest mine get to my neck is when samson is on my arm and he rests his head on the top of my arm which is where he sits. i get the whole its easier to hold them cause the weight isnt on your arms but its not gonna be something ill do thats for sure.
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by morelia on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:13 am

The article seems to be quite biased IMO, not surprising really when you consider the ignorance of most people towards snakes.

I'm generalising here of course, but its likely the guy put the snake around his neck / over a shoulder while handling it.....which is a silly thing to do with a big snake. Its equivalent is letting Hulk Hogan hang onto your neck while he's dangling off the end of a building, 3 floors up.....sooner or later he's gonna get a better grip to secure himself and your gonna pass out as a result.

Look up the internet for pics of Burms, boas, Retics, and there are oodles of photos with keepers / breeders posing with their snakes around their necks / over a shoulder.....it really makes me mad. Of course its only a matter of time before someone gets choked out / strangled.

Regardless of the cause behind the death, its sad and completely avoidable. To produce knee-jerk legislation against all herp keepers for what was most likely ineffective husbandry practice is sad. A little forethought can easily avoid situations like these.
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:15 am

i put mine round my neck but i hold close to the head to stop her from rappin round my neck
and i rap the tail round my arm its way easier to hold the 6ft+ snakes
its just a matter of being carefull
but ive mine train kinda if she gets to close i pull her out and sqeeze her tail a wee bit she response to that she knows that thats to far
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:25 am

morelia: im not ATTACKING you on your facts
yes it dangerous but if you know what your doin then there shouldnt be a problem
and when i bought my 6fter i was told to not let her go round my neck unless i had trust and respect and of course knowin what i was doin and what to expect!
so it took bout 2weekd befor i was cool with her around my neck but i always kept her tail comin from under my arm and holdin her tail

so while the pros are doing it theres always others about, but of course they arnt in the photos (behind the scenes)

yea it sets bad examples it just a matter do you trust your snake enough to let her on your neck!!!
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by morelia on Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:16 am

IMO skill has only got a very small part to play when handling big constrictors......forethought and common sense are much more important. If you let a big constrictor around your neck, GOOD LUCK is what you'll need, not skill.

Heres my take on it......every snake we keep in 'captivity' is a wild animal. We can condition them to respond to certain cues which can make handling and managing them easier, such as tap training, however they are instinctive animals and will react without thought.....they don't do things in malice as they are driven primarily by instinct. This means that nomatter how 'good' we think we are, we cannot actually predict what they will do next.....take handling for example.....

When a snake is being handled, its first consideration is to maintain a good grip so it doesn't fall and injure itself. As a snake's body is incredibly sensitive to touch, it is able to feel when it is vunerable to fall or lose grip much better than us, so we have to watch its actions to determine how best to handle it. Here are a few points worthy of serious consideration when handling a large constrictor:

(1) when it is in our arms we can see it clearly and respond accordingly, also if it feels unbalanced and it wraps tightly, its relatively easy to uncoil and you have time on your hands before your hand goes black LOL....a big constrictor around your neck will not afford you these same luxuries.

(2) when wrapped around our neck / over our shoulder the snake is higher off the ground and so has further to fall - so it instinctively wants to get a better grip on you as a result. Pretty much the ONLY thing that acts as a good anchor-point up there is your neck, which the snake treats like a big tree branch, so obviously its a matter of time before it tries to wrap around it.

(3) when a large snake is so close to your face and part of it is actually behind you, you stand little to no chance of maintaining an adequate amount of control over it. This is such a bad scenario.....think about it......you have what is basically a large tube of solid muscle draped around your neck, part of which you cannot see, and all it has to do is compress the blood vessels in your neck by a few centimetres and thats it, lights out. It only takes around 15 seconds of the brain being starved of oxygen and at the very least you'll have brain damage, at the very most you'll be dead. Even if there are other knowledgable people on standby to help you, there is so little time to get the snake off that its really best to just never do it in the first place.

(4) many snakes, particularly the heat-sensing pythons and boas, can respond to the warmest part of a warm-blooded animal's body - the head / brain area - in an instinctive way that we cannot always predict. If a snake becomes narky while around your neck you could all of a sudden be smacked on the face / neck, same applies if the snake is even slightly hungry, except a hungry snake will likely also constrict hard and not let go. A bad bite in this situation can also mean a punctured vein or artery, loss of an eye etc.

I for one value my life and my hobby too much to let a big snake anywhere near my neck or face. Why take the risk in the first place and play with the inevitable? If you don't get a big snake constricting your neck eventually, it isn't skill on your part....its good luck on your part. If a big constrictor really wants to wrap around your neck, you stand absolutely no chance.

This is why keeping big snakes requires the keeper to be 100% responsible and handle it in a way that safeguards himself, the snake and his hobby.....because one stupid handling mistake paints the whole hobby with a bad reputation.

I also don't buy all this 'its easier to handle' or 'I trust my snake' stuff either. Personally I don't trust any animal, wild or otherwise. I have a big male Coastal carpet who I handle regularly and he can be a real handful, always wanting to climb higher onto my neck / shoulder, and he would be the one snake I trust the most. With a little forethought I can control him with my arms (or a second person) very easily. Yes, it can be tiring, but thats the price for handling a big and awesome animal. Theres no room for laziness when handling big snakes, and a lazy approach will eventually end badly.
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tony W on Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:11 am

Hudsy, complacency increases risk...superbly articulated Karl and 100%....

Here's a quick clip [nothing to do with snakes] of a US DEA Agent delivering a briefing to pupils at a local high school...he's a professional, take a look and listen and afterwards tell me, did a little complacency creep in somewhere and what was the result?? Bottom line... as already mentioned in the thread...forethought, common sense and a zero tolerance to complacency will all contribute to minimise risk.....

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by moloch gibbon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:14 pm

Karl: I agree with Tony - a superb piece of excellent advice by your good self. I think all too often with ANY kind of animal-keeping, that some (not all) keepers try to inflict THEIR will on the animal or don't interpret some or any of the animal's non-verbal communication (body language) because: a) they don't take the time to study their animals; b) are ignorant, or ignore the potential risks; c) they are too stubborn, lazy or arrogant to think that it won't happen to them; d) are just plain stupid; e) bravado gets the better of them.
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:41 pm

i know what to expect and the dangers of having snakes around my neck,
and once i feel some danger then i imediatly take the snake of my neck
i never encourage someone to do so but its my preference and i do so with care!!!

but its only my neck shes on, as she is very strong and i would never let her on any one elses neck unless they had a big snake of their own and new the dangers

i let others care for their snakes their way and how they wish
but when it comes to mine i do it the way im able to do best for me and the snake so when my snake is out of the tank i take extreme care on what happens makin sure no harm comes to the snake or others
unless i feel the snake gettin paranoid or unsafe i put her back
by this her behaviour changes
(hard to describe but i know it when she does it)
kinda bit more active trying to hide under things
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by thoth on Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:15 pm

They actually tested how much force it would take to make a person pass out from pressure on the cartoid artery in the neck. It takes 40 pounds of pressure to restrict the flow of blood and make a person pass out, constrictors can hold this pressure for 3 hours !

Never take a snake for granted !
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:30 pm

well i know what im doing and id like to think that know one knows/unerstands my snakes like i do!!!!!
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tan on Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:35 pm

I think one point which Tony, Karl & Raymond all made was complacency increases risk of injury which I fully agree with and is irrefutable no matter what your experience or handling habits are. Another thing is routine over time, sometimes the most experienced keeper (in relation to any animal) can make or over look the teeniest of mistakes and it's things like this which can lead to minor or major injuries. One thing I have learned over the years is it only takes something on the wind or the slightest of movements at that particular time for the animal to respond instinctively & it doesn't matter how well they know you.

Hudsy, I think everyone knows where you're coming from but the advice offered is only for your safety. We all get to 'know' our animals but the guys are just highlighting the dangers associated with these animals and rightly so. This thread has actually highlighted something I've thought a lot about in recent weeks and I for one would like to say excellent thread guys, some fantastic, sensible advice offered as always

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tony isnt inocent look at the link haha

Post by hudsy13 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:56 pm

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at this link you see tony with not 1 but 2 snakes (bulls)
which have an aggressive reputation may i point out
(yes there not all bad and are truly amazing snakes as i had a pine (nearly the same)
around his neck!!!!
and stated the male was round 5ft and female looks the same!!!

sorry tony once i saw this i hadda do it!!
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tan on Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Good thread to highlight Hudsy, we like balance but from my point of view reading this thread a few things come to mind, one being like for like is far more balanced so what about this thread for handling similar
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Hudsy are you saying a Bull poses the same risk as a Boa of similar size? The reason I ask is I know very little about Bulls, only what I've picked up on other forums, reading etc...and my experience with Boas isn't vast although I have handled both species and felt what I would have said was a massive difference so I am interested in your views? I'm learning all the time and my own views could be way off so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is it true guys that a comparison like this is fair based on similar size or does it not weigh? I'm interested in experienced keepers views here. Also sorry for speaking out of turn Tony. Looking forward to the reply

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by morelia on Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:45 pm

Tan, your spot on - a BCI possesses far more muscle mass per unit length than the vast majority of colubrids, i.e. a 6ft BCI would be more muscular than a 6ft Bullsnake, as evidenced by the sheer difference in girth of the two species at a similar length.

Handling a 6ft Bullsnake is a lot easier than handling a 6ft boa, partly because the Bullsnake is lighter and also less muscular, so its therefore much easier to remove it should it constrict. I've had a ~6ft Taiwan Beauty constrict my arm and I was able to remove it quite easily but a big female boa Im used to own was a different animal entirely and capable of doing real damage if she was mis-handled.

Besides, this is Mr. T we're talking about.....2 Bullsnakes around his neck is no probs, this is the guy who eats whole cows for breakfast and spits out the bones, the guy you can lock in a bunker with a drill, a spanner and some mates, and half an hour later he emerges driving a tank......never underestimate the power of Mr. T.....he puts the BULL (Rarrrr!!!) in bullsnake!
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by inkriminate on Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:48 pm

i'd never trust a snake enough to put myself in any serious risk. Snakes demand complete respect and total awareness at all times while they're out of the viv. We have snakes that are the softest puppys you could imagine but i know the threats they pose and handle them accordingly.
Theres some very well respected snake owners on the forum that give very good advice. I think we can all learn as we go to make ourselves a little safer in dealing with these magnificent animals.
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:40 pm

yes but bulls arnt as timid as boas
the majority of the ones ive seen where more to aggresive
but it was said it could only take a bite to lose an eye
so in that case muscle wouldnt have anything to do with it
just how timid your snake is
and with my experience mine was always unpredictable on its movements
eg it moves quickly and unexpectedly, and you flintch well that flinch could cause danger
my corn bit my cause i flinched at one of her movements
where as boas are a more timid breed of snake, and are more laid back
example my baby sister bit my 6ft boa and she did nothin i was quite suprized at that
(it happened unexpectedly while i was holdin the boa, my sis was petting her back while my brother was holding her)
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tony W on Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:04 pm

Ha!Ha! You're digging deep Hudsy...we're talking the ability to asphyxiate you! However strong a Bull, Pine, Gopher, Indigo or any Rat snake you care to mention is, it's only strong compared to that group of snakes, I don't think you could honestly compare the shear muscle concentration of a healthy 6ft Boa and how he uses it [let alone the 9 foot boa in the original link] against a similar length Bull or any other colubrid I can think of at all, ....Bulls are relatively fast and can be a little feisty [for Bull snakes] but mostly if you've spent time with them it's bluff...snort, snort!! hence the term Bull, in terms of being bitten in the eye/face...this could occur with any animal, why would your boa be any different? I have an ETB and GTP's that can strike a good third to almost half the length of their bodies....at maintenance time even moving these out of their housing can be interesting ...you want to define feisty.....BIAK GTP..... definitely not Bull snake...but of course you might not know that...

I honestly don't know what your experience is with various animals, but to say that your corn snake bit you because you flinched [he was probably scared and defensive]...has nothing whatsoever to do with a boa asphyxiating a man to death and moreover absolutely nothing to do with the sound and general advice that has been offered on this thread....

You'll note I wrote general advice...you appear to feel [or that's the sense I get] that every response to your original post is an attack on you personally...nonsense...it's general...and the other thing you should remember is that it's advice...you can take it or leave it...it's you're decision totally....if you decided to race up and down the stairs at yours naked with your boas wrapped round your neck and Y fronts on your head this would be your business, and yours alone........

As a footnote I certainly wouldn't allow a situation to occur where an infant is in any position to bite any snake scratch scratch ...but that's just me....I'm getting on and may be a little old fashioned??????? If you sense a little irony in this comment, you're supposed to!!


And finally don't forget what Karl has already highlighted....

Besides, this is Mr. T we're talking about.....2 Bullsnakes around his neck is no probs, this is the guy who eats whole cows for breakfast and spits out the bones, the guy you can lock in a bunker with a drill, a spanner and some mates, and half an hour later he emerges driving a tank......never underestimate the power of Mr. T.....he puts the BULL (Rarrrr!!!) in bullsnake!

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:58 am

yea i was feelin that every one was attackin me!!
but i understand everything that has been said.....and agree that it is dangerous.....thats why when i have snakes arond my neck as i stated before i hold her tail and bot 1ft down from her head this stops her from coillin around my neck......
as for my baby sister well that was unexpected as i was holdin the snakes head and had her tail on my leg to let me sister see her, as she seems to like snakes, well she was petting the tail then like a todler she treid to bite it, but lckily she bearly had teeth
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tan on Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:01 am

It puts an entire new perspective on the things toddlers will put into their mouths

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by Tony W on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:00 pm

hudsy13 wrote:yea i was feelin that every one was attackin me!!

Hudsy, if you didn't know, attacking folk, shops and other forums on this site is not condoned...period.

What folk will comment on of course, are areas of concern for the greater good, that is, to protect and advise newcomers to the hobby, slightly less experienced keepers and the hobby itself...and that's in all our interests...I know you'd agree.

In any case I think this thread has been a valuable one and if we've managed to elicit a more serious and less complacent approach to our husbandry, we've done our piece I would say.

A truly balanced approach to comment and advice is the best approach IMO....BTW I thought your very last comment in the Hots thread, demonstrated a pretty sensible and responsible approach looking forward....an approach that I know a lot of folk would agree with.

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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by hudsy13 on Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:00 pm

well would i be right if i said
us with the bigger snakes 5-6ft+ has at one point pt one around our neck?

thanks hots is for me a hole different approach on snakes
eg the tiniest mistake with the tiniest snake could cause high level of danger
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Re: Killer Boa ?

Post by inkriminate on Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:05 pm

Apparently 2 Deaths by boas this week!!
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